All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby Krishach on Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:24 am

More than a few predators have come up with varying intelligence. Most of the very "intelligent" animals we have to day are in some way carnivorous. I'd have to call that last statement ignorant. And slow evolution is seriously overrated. It's almost easy to disprove it. Serious evolutionary argument points to violent trends: associate radical mutation along with gradual shift.
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby Joehtosis on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:45 pm

To Mudokon:
Well, it's rather obvious that animals that we brought to the brink and have linked up to a metaphorical life support system now would be dropped out. However, a species does not make an ecosystem. If tigers and pandas were to die out, another group would fill their niche, as Harpu stated. What you were saying seemed to imply that if we were gone entire ecosystems would go to catastrophe and mass extinction would be prevalent. (At least that's what I picture hell as being.)
To need2:
That's actually a very good point, I never thought of it on the level that the only reason we even became sentient was the fact that we needed it just to survive. I suppose that would explain why we suck at just about everything else lol.
As for no animal finding a way to replace the niche that humans fill, even in an allotted 1 billion years; I'd say that's a little cruel. Hell, if life even lasts that long sentient life could perhaps come and go several times. To make my point more clear, it took one billion years for us to go from early multi-cellular life forms to humans as a species. I'm sure that if any creature on earth were given such an amount of time, it could branch well off into different sorts of life forms we can't even imagine. *This includes branching off into different kingdoms of life. Animals, plants, fungus, bacteria, etc. )

Onto the original topic I posted, I was thinking that more than just intelligence is required to become sentient. For example, dolphins are quite intelligent creatures, however they have no means of manipulating their environment. Beavers on the other hand aren't exactly the brightest creatures of the planet but they manipulate the environment more than any animal besides us. I suppose you'd need to find some common ground for these two abilities.. I vote elephant. =P
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby Hivetyrant765 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:11 am

Old-one-eye wrote:
Typically sepsis and gangrene result if proper antibiotics and treatment are not secured within a matter of hours. And I'm not talking a pill: these are IV, hospital bed, Dr House type, medical bag antibio's. Otherwise, you lose the limb or die.

Crikey.

Am I the only guy here who prefers mammals? :lol:


nope. i like cats, dogs, and wolves.

i want a pet husky or golden retriever. ive already had a pit bull. i dont have it anymore though, because my mothers dog attacked her and she defended herself, and killed my mothers dog. i had to get rid of her because i live with my mother :cry:

other than that, pit bulls are NOT the evil, viscous dogs that people say they are. i got mine when she was a puppy, and she was the most loyal dog ive ever seen. she only ever bit one person, and it was because he swung at me when i was taking her for a walk. took a hunk out of his ass :lol:

animal i hate: bats. i had a fight with a bat in my house last night. thing had a wing span of atleast 1 foot, which is big in waynesboro, pa. everytime i hit the thing, it would fall down, then get back up and fly at my face again. it was also trying to catch our new puppy (which is very small). i got pissed and got my sword, and beat it with the sheath for a bit. then it came too close to hitting me. when it came in for another attack run, i intersepted it with the blade of my sword, cutting its wings off in 2 easy strokes. i then got a golf club, yelled fore, and smacked it out the front door into the street :lol:
Last edited by Hivetyrant765 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby need2 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:12 am

Good god, what kinds of bats live around there?! It sounds like someone had some very pissed off captive bat that they left for you. I personally like bats, but my rule for any creature is: if it begins to attack me or something I feel a need to protect (ie: puppy, other human, livestock), its life is forfeit. Nice move with the sword btw. :P
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby mudokon100 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:06 pm

need2 wrote:Good god, what kinds of bats live around there?! It sounds like someone had some very pissed off captive bat that they left for you. I personally like bats, but my rule for any creature is: if it begins to attack me or something I feel a need to protect (ie: puppy, other human, livestock), its life is forfeit. Nice move with the sword btw. :P


I second this outlook. And the comment about the sword.

I will NEVER needlessly kill an animal (normally), I'm forever picking up snails after a rainstorm. But that bat had it coming. Totally.
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby Ministry on Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:34 am

That was no bat, it was a vampire.

If humans were removed from the picture (in some way that didn't also remove most other life on the planet) there is no guarantee that any animal would become sentient to take our place. Just look at the time of the dinosaurs. They had billions of years of evolution to work with, and there is no evidence (that we know of) to indicate any kind of "sentient" life. If the dinosaurs had not been wiped out, I do not think that early man would have done well enough for themselves as a species to ever evolve into what we are today. Life was just way too hazerdous. By contrast, the time that early humans were developing was a walk in the park.

So if humans are gone, and if the environment were to remain in a similar stability to today's conditions, I don't think anything would need to evolve to our level of intelligence, no matter how much time is granted. It would likely just revert to a stronger/tougher/faster/clever competition of predators and prey until conditions became much worse (another ice age comes rolling through). Just remember that evolution comes from successful mutations and/or survival necessities of a species.

Stuff like wolves would outlive foxes or alligators because they work independantly


:?: Alligators, along with a few other species such as Sharks and Cockroaches, were some of the few that survived whatever it was that made the dinosaurs extinct. I think they would get along just fine.

Pit Bulls have a bad rep, and I think it's deserved. I'm a huge fan of dogs, and a good friend of mine owns a Pit (named "Taz") and I really like the dog. Now a Pit that is properly trained by a good owner will be a great dog. But far too often this is not the case. A lot of people get them but either don't know how, or don't care how to properly train a potentially dangerous dog, and that's when it get's out of hand. A poorly trained or abused Pit can decide that it wants to attack an innocent person walking down the street, and no matter what the owner or the victim does the dog will not back down. It's not the dog's fault, it's the master's lack of control. Also that's what the Pit Bull has been specifically trained to do for a long time, attack, attack and attack without any regard to it's own safety. A smart dog will not do this. If a smart dog gets hurt, it will realize that it made a mistake and will rethink the situation, usually from a distance from whatever hurt it. If a Pit Bull gets hurt, it only makes it more angry and more prone to attack.
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby mudokon100 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:08 am

Wasn't it Pits they used as bomb-dogs? They'd run through mines and sh*t, not giving a fsck even if they got a leg blasted off, leapt under the tank and... boom. Kinda sick if you ask me.
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby Hivetyrant765 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:43 am

i dont think that a dog deserves a bad rep because of it having bad owners.

and, as i said, i trained her well. she didnt hurt people or animals, except for when my mothers dog attack her for no reason, and when she was defending me from attack. that dog was literally my best friend, alot better than my best human friend who apparently thinks that playing WoW is more important than trying to cheer up a depressed friend :x
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby mudokon100 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:04 pm

Hivetyrant765 wrote:i dont think that a dog deserves a bad rep because of it having bad owners.


Most of the time, that is true. However, Pit Bulls are genetically BAD. Yes, there are a few that can be trained, but it takes a skilled and determined owner to keep them truly under control. The problem with them is that once they loose control, that's it, they will not stop, not for anything.
That's why it's illegal to breed them over here.
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Re: All creatures great and small (and somewhere in between)

Postby Harpu on Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:30 pm

The survival of alligators and sharks can be theorized that it was because they spend a lot if not most of their life in the ocean. The oceans were not affected nearly as much as the land because sunlight isn't as big of a factor to an oceans eco system and the ground breaking apart into new continents and volcanic activity, carbon dioxide and various other after affects of the supposed meteor or whatever made the dinosaurs extinct simply wouldn't be life threatening to aquatic species.

This is of course just a theory which provides anexplanation to their survival, but I think it is a reasonable one. what I was saying is, barring no catastrophic events and if life were to go on without humans at a stable state, years from now alligators won't have the aquatic advantage as such a big factor. Besides, if I recall, the species is slightly endangered as it is already. A few natural hurricanes during such seasons is more than enough to wipe out alligators since there wouldn't be people raising them in alligator farms and releasing them into the wild to repopulate as is the case now.

And as for cockroaches....everyone knows they will live. They feed on anything and seem immune to certain levels of radiation. They shouldn't factor in survivability, the cockroach has everyone else beat! :)
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